Hi everyone, and welcome to the next episode of the EA Campus podcast today I'm absolutely delighted to welcome Lauren Borden with us. Lauren. Hi. Welcome. Hi, Nikki. Thank you for having me. And you are in the same city as me. We are not that far from each other in Barcelona, which is nice. No, super small world, and we've both played netball and we both play, we both played the same netball team.
[00:00:25] I'm in the B are in the a saying that's, yes, I could I could actually spend the rest of the podcast talking to you about netball. But I've done that with other guests before and very quickly realizes that's not why we're here. We'll save that for. Yeah, we'll save that for Fridays.
[00:00:41] Absolutely. So there's a lot to cover because having looked through your LinkedIn profile, you've done so much and there's so many skills that you cover. So I'd like to get stuck into that. But before we do, why don't we let our listeners know a little bit about you? Can you start with just telling us about your career today?
[00:00:58] Yeah, so basically my, I studied languages at University, French and Spanish with translation and interpreting. That has always been my passion and my love. And on the back of that, after my degree, I started to work for Interpol London and the Serious Organized Crime Agency as an in-house translator for French and Spanish.
[00:01:19] And then after good five years of working as a transla. I was already in London at the time, and I could see there were so many opportunities for trilingual executive assistants in London, in particular in Mefa. So wanting a bit of a change and try something new. I branched out from working as a translator into being a trilingual executive assistant in London.
[00:01:41] And then most recently, about one year ago, I left in-house executive assistant work and set up on my own as a virtual executive assistant and a transla. It sounds like you've done a lot. First of all, working for Interpol must have been incredibly interesting and would've given you, I would imagine, quite a lot of competencies to deal with executives.
[00:02:04] What was that experience like? So working for Interpol as a translator was fantastic. It was really quite a grounded atmosphere, much more grounded than I thought it would be. Obviously, highly sensitive and confidential. We were just a small team, false translators, and we would deal with documents in French and Spanish every day relating to wanted people, missing people, and we would translate from French and Spanish into English and obviously be on call as well every month to deal with anything that was deemed urgent and at ours.
[00:02:36] So yeah, it was very a confidential vi, very high sensit. Documentation and, which was fantastic. I used my languages loads and if I wasn't translated, I'd be on the telephone to the offices in France or Spain or South America to discuss any outstanding projects, outstanding messages. So yeah, super, super interesting.
[00:02:55] I loved it. Yeah. Particularly first full-time rollout outside of university. It must have given you the professional skills you would've needed at very quick pace. I would imagine that, for a lot of people coming out of university that's not the kind, that's the job they end up doing.
[00:03:10] Yeah. Years later it's. No, don't get me wrong, like it wasn't the job I went straight into. That's just me doing my career in a nutshell, highlights. There were, so there were quite a few years it was between university and ended up with that amazing job. I did some average jobs. I lived in France for a while to protect my French, working within tourism and customer services, which was fantastic in its own way, and helped me become really fluent in French.
[00:03:35] But yeah, it was only at the age of, I'd say I think 28 or 30 I must have been when I left, when I was back in Manchester after to live New France. And then I moved down from, moved down to London from Manchester to work for, there were many average jobs in between university in inter one of the things that.
[00:03:56] I find really interesting about assistants who have language skills, particularly, I dunno if this is across the board, but particularly in the London market. Someone described this to me quite recently. They're like gold dust. And I wonder if that was your experience. It gets, for me, it's the sense that if you have those language skills, it's quite few and far between, for British people in particular have such strong language skills.
[00:04:20] So I wonder if you found. You were in demand when you did start looking for bilingual roles? Yeah, to be honest, I think it did make a difference. I was in demand and the salary salaries were really interesting and there was so much potential there to move on to another position. And if I higher salary and use my languages.
[00:04:40] Yeah, I think the languages were a game changer. Know that you say that, I don't think I realized at the time, but looking back, I know that you said that there was, there were. Interesting roles available and different recruitment companies calling. So you said that you run your own assistant, virtual assistant business now with translation, which is fantastic.
[00:05:00] Could you tell us a little bit about how you made that decision to move from your corporate role into starting your own business? Yeah, so basically I wanted, I always knew. From a young age, basically that I wanted to settle down in the Mediterranean and enjoy that Mediterranean life, whether it's France or Spain.
[00:05:19] And then the time came about a couple of years ago where it was really time, and I was looking for jobs in France, well in Spain, which decided on Spain. And I was looking for work in Spain as a translator or an executive assistant. And there was nothing really, nothing interesting in comparison to what I was used.
[00:05:36] So I decided in the end just to do things my own way and go freelance and bring together everything that I loved and had experience in. So that's why I then set up your trilingual support, which is the name of my business, and I bring together my tri executive assistant virtually, and also my translation experience.
[00:05:56] So how have you found the shift from working for an organization to working for yourself? It's got its advantages and disadvantages, but overall it's definitely a good thing because it's enabled me to do what I want, which is to set up home in Spain and start this new chapter and keep my career at the same time and continue with what I love and what my passion is, which is my languages.
[00:06:19] However, there are times where I do miss the social of working in an office, the interaction with people, I miss that because it is, can be quite solidary at times working, freelance, and having your own. And that's why I think it's super important to connect with as many people as you can professionally and personally, especially when you're in a new country.
[00:06:37] And that definitely, helps along the way. I'd say that's one of the biggest challenges of setting up on your own. As for freelancers, if you're quite a social interactive person you will miss the interaction of the office and the people. But overall, it's definitely worth. It takes a while to get used to, doesn't it?
[00:06:54] I remember the first year that I left the corporate world with practically perfect pa and when it came round to the Christmas party season, yes. It was devastating. It was just, it was such a highlight of the year and catching up with colleagues. Yeah. And, so much fun, particularly in London.
[00:07:11] And then it was just, it was just me and my other half went out for a theater. It was just, it wasn't the same. So no, it takes, I had exactly the same thing. Because as well, we, I was so lucky working in Mayfair at high net worth level. Our Christmas parties would. At the least in Mayfair, but quite often they'd be in Paris or in Monaco and they were just the sexiest events.
[00:07:34] I love them. So it's then to go from what would be seen as the best Christmas event you could have, the best Christmas party you could have, so they're not having one. But actually a bit by bit has come together because one of my clients has invited me to their Christmas party, which is lovely in London.
[00:07:49] But I think I will actually make, give it a miss because there were quite a lot of back and forth in between Barcelona and London. And then I've joined a translators network here in Barcelona, and then there's a Christmas meetup with that, with the netball girls. There's the Christmas meetup. So actually I feel okay about it now.
[00:08:04] That definitely helps. That's good. That's good. So tell us a little bit about what you get up to now in your business. What kind of clients are you serving? And so what are the, what does the main aspect of your role look like now? The, I'd say the main, my main clients. Is one that I worked regularly every single day, at least three to four hours.
[00:08:26] It's private equity and I look after two of the directors that, and it commit anything from overseas like relocation, lifestyle management, events management, international travel. To the more straightforward duties such as organizing meetings, booking restaurants, dealing with expenses. So that is my main client, private equity.
[00:08:49] And I look after the two directors there. And I love that because I know every single day I have my client, I have my hours. And then on top of that, I have my ad hoc, very ad hoc translation language projects that pop. Randomly As and when, and I feel that way. I have the security of the private equity executive A at work every single day, which I love.
[00:09:11] And then I still have enough time for the ad hoc projects that pop up every week. I just have no idea when or where. That sounds nice. Like you've got a nice balance there. It's, I think for any virtual assistant, having a regular client that provides quite a few hours of work must be a real Yeah, just a real bonus that what's coming in every month.
[00:09:31] It must be really helpful. And then as you said, you've got time to pick up others, other work as and when you need. Yeah, definitely. To have that certain level of security is really helpful. I need that, to be honest. It works powerful for me. Fantastic. So I know life will probably look quite different for you now that you're in Barcelona compared to when you were working in the corporate world in London.
[00:09:53] So why don't you tell us a little bit about what life is like for you once you get to step away from your desk. So how do you start your day and then how do you structure the rest of it? I try to at least a couple of times a week in the morning, make sure I head for the beach because where I'm living at the moment, one big advantage is that I'm just 15 minutes work from the beach head there, taking some seat and go for a nice swim because there's CNA just by the beach here in Barcelona where can have really nice outdoor swims with views of the sea.
[00:10:22] So I really try and make that happen at least a couple of times a week and start my day in that way because that is just the perfect start for. And on the days that I don't quite manage it, I at least trying to allow myself a bit of time in the morning just to gather my thoughts, have a nice breakfast before I start committing myself to my clients.
[00:10:41] Because you have to be careful because it, otherwise you couldn't lose a balance when you're your, when you work for yourself and you have your own business, you can be. Own to a certain extent and dictated by your clients and the workflow. So you really I'm realizing more and more to all allow that time for myself in the morning before losing myself to my clients and my workflow.
[00:11:03] Cause if not, it can be really overwhelming at times. Yeah, that's definitely something that I need to Take some advice from you on because yeah, it's, you get stuck in and then you forget that you're not taking advantage of the beautiful place that, that we live. Yeah. And I know lots of other people that have probably made that shift from working in the office and getting out the house every day to working from home or working in a hybrid situation, and you just find yourself at home all day and before you know it you've not taken advantage of the outside and getting some fresh air or, yeah.
[00:11:35] Or in our case, heading down to the beach. Yes, I appreciate you saying that. I definitely need to do that more. It's true because there are so many different elements of being a business owner as well. It's such as turning up regular, like regularly on LinkedIn and promoting your business, talking about what you can offer.
[00:11:51] And that's not paid necessarily. Not directly paid time. And also issuing the invoices, checking payments are coming. You need time for that as well. It's it's definitely a balancing act. Definitely. So what's the most challenging part of your.
[00:12:07] I think that's the most challenging part is making sure I have that balance and making sure there's time for me. And then just generally the most difficult or challenging parts of having your own business and working for yourself is just, at times where you see potential ideal client and you think, oh, it's really making progress.
[00:12:24] It's in the bag. And then they don't, they say, no, you do have to quiet, have to have quite a lot of quite thick skin as well. Cause there are times where maybe. You know your rates if they don't like your rates, so they think they can, they want you because you have your languages, you have you a high net worth level background, your director background.
[00:12:42] But then when it comes to it, and they're discussed with their partners that maybe they can't afford you. But basically all you'll ever get is an email saying no, I'm sorry. It's not something we are willing to. Take forward. And that can be quite, yeah, it can be upsetting because you invest quite a lot of time.
[00:12:58] You're drawn up the contracts, you are meeting them in person, and you never properly know why, but you just have to trust that everybody who does come your way and ends up working with you, they're the ones that are meant to be. But there were many people along the way. That show interest, but it never really gets cemented.
[00:13:15] Yeah, it takes a little bit of time to develop that thicker skin when you're starting in business, it's not something that once you've secured a job as a, an executive assistant in the corporate world, you are there and you are in, and you've, you've got the job so you can concentrate on the value that you bring in, that you add when you're a va.
[00:13:33] It's hard to make that shift when you know the skills that you have and. And the value that you can bring, and actually your day your hourly rate or day rate is completely justified. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard, isn't it? I would imagine that's a real, again, that's a learning curve for somebody that's moving from the EA world into the VA world.
[00:13:49] Yeah, definitely. So what's the most enjoyable part of the day? Apart from going to the beach, which does sound lovely. I'd say the most enjoyable part of my day at the moment as a business owner is when I am potentially working on football interviews that are in French or Spanish. Cause that's something absolutely love.
[00:14:08] I find it's so interesting to see what goes on behind the scenes and be involved in World's Cup interviews. Or for example, recently I was involved in a TV documentary. For Michelle Ru, the famous French chef who was traveling around France, and I got see behind the scenes of that and translated the French into English.
[00:14:26] I say recently that's been the most interesting area of my work. Oh, that sounds fantastic For somebody who's struggled with Spanish my whole life, particularly since I've moved here. It's amazing when you hear how, how you're able to integrate the passion that you have for speaking languages into your work.
[00:14:46] It's such an amazing skill to have, so I always, and it can take you really can take you anywhere. Is what you've just said there. It's great that you've got that balance. You are able to keep using your skills, your language skills in different aspects of your work. It's being a journey for sure. I would just always say to anybody, follow your passion, because that's what I did with my languages.
[00:15:07] I followed my passion. That is what I loved. And, but there was. It's not the easiest career to be involved in either. There are not masses of interesting opportunities out there for linguists, so it's definitely been a process of carving out my career for myself and coming across different crossroads and then heading in a different new direction.
[00:15:27] But it has come together really nicely. Oh, fantastic. But in terms of in languages, it's definitely like the U early start, the easier, I think I started learning languages well in school at the age of 12 and then I never stopped, so I then went on to college and then went to the university and the amount of hours, days, months, years, it's needed to get that.
[00:15:46] The level of fluency from education or living in and living in the country, both. That's definitely what helps to se cement it, which it does take a long. Yes. Yes, it absolutely does. So it sounds like you had, you've had some really interesting roles and particularly some of the work that you did as a executive system in in London.
[00:16:06] So I wonder just what some of the career highlights have been for you in when you were working in your corporate roles. I would say my career highlight in terms of executive assistant in-house work in Mefa was when I worked for a mon. Family office. So they had one office in Monaco and then they set their second office in Mefa to be in the heart of Mefa, working in such a beautiful home, which had been conversed into offices.
[00:16:33] And we organized an events in Mefa, organized the event in Monaco, liaison with the office in Monaco, in France, in French, translating documents from French into English. I loved that role and that for sure is my in-house executive assistant. And could you give any advice to assistants that would or would love to work for high net worth individuals?
[00:16:55] Is there any particular skills that you need or a particular mindset that may be different to working in a C more corporate environment? I think it all depends on location. I think you're gonna find those vacancies in New York, London, Paris, Geneva for sure. That's where you see those kind of roles.
[00:17:17] And I think that's the most important thing really to be where you are located. And generally they do prefer in-house executive assistants. They don't seem as open to having virtual executive assistants or remote executive assistants unless it's a relatively new company that's extremely modern and forward thinking.
[00:17:34] Generally, from what I've seen, it just tend to be those sitters and in-house. And apart from that, you think it's just an ability to connect with people. On a personal professional level, be able to deal with stress and prioritize well because things can get quite heated, quite stressful. They're extremely busy, quite demanding at times.
[00:17:55] So again, quite thick skin and be able to deal well with stress and prioritize well and keep your composure. And do you think there's a difference in terms of working inside someone's house compared to working in an office that again, assistance might not realize? Yeah, I would say so. My first executive assistant role in Mayfair was in a beautiful kind of four-story Mayfair home that would've been completely converted into offices.
[00:18:25] And my second executive assistant role was in Mafa, but in more of an open plan hedge fund office. And yeah, there's a big difference. I definitely prefer the family home that have been compared into offices. It felt more personal, more homeless. Yes, it was a beautiful place to work. And hedge fund, open plan office is extremely loud, extremely aggressive, extremely vice dress, lots of shouting and swearing, and you don't really have your own little area, your own little space, as we did in the family home that been converted into.
[00:18:56] So is there any advice you'd give to assistants that are maybe just starting in their role that you would've, prob you would've liked to have heard when you started? Choose wisely and look for red flags is what I would say, because I don't know about you, but when I see I'm far now and when I was growing up, I think times are changing the gener with the generations and it's, I love.
[00:19:20] You know what's happening more and more now is that is a two-way thing. So when I was growing up, it's a bit more, oh, you've been offered this job opportunity and say, oh, that's fantastic. You have to take it. No, my advice that anyone would be, when you go for an interview, it's for you to judge them, judge the workplace, judge the culture.
[00:19:37] Cause it'll all come, a lot will come out in the interview or there'll be certain elements that come out in the interview. And if you, if anything, takes your. Or there's that little red flags that listen to them and maybe don't continue down that route. Because I just think for me, growing up, I was always, it was more of a case of, oh wow, you've been up for the job.
[00:19:54] You must go for it. But I think you have to be super careful when you commit yourself to an employer and when you change companies. And there are such the red flags that will pop up and just be, have your wits about you. And it's a two-way thing. They're questioning you and interviewing you, but also you can ask the questions and yeah, like I said, have your wits about you and choose wisely.
[00:20:15] Yeah, I completely agree. I think times have changed actually. And I think for, particularly for my audience, it's, I always say to them it's, ask the questions in the interview because, I think there's a red flag in and of itself if you're asking, if you feel like you can't ask questions in the interview.
[00:20:32] Yeah. But, and then when you are asking questions, really listen to the answers because that's when you can pull out whether or not you wanna work for them. Because I think you've gotta remind yourself they're lucky to have you, you are a resource and a talent. Yeah, I completely agree with that, particularly for assistance cuz it so often comes down to personality and how you connect with who you're working.
[00:20:53] Definitely. So if there's one thing that you know now about the assistant role that you did that you wish you knew before you started, what would that be? I think just how amazingly an interestingly varied an executive assistant role can be. You can invite, be involved in so much and it can be so international.
[00:21:12] So assisted directors with overseas relocation. From London back to Paris. I've organized events in Monaco and in Paris, which was so interesting. I've dealt with transporting works of arts from one address to another address, and there is just so much you can do as an executive assistant. It's so far, it can be so varied and so interesting.
[00:21:34] Once you find the company and the director That's right. There's so much out there and it can pay very well pulse off. Yeah. There's something that sometimes I don't think we talk about enough, actually. I think particularly when you're working for high net worth individuals and you work within the kind of space that you've worked in the pay is.
[00:21:54] Is great, and it's something that we should really celebrate, that there are opportunities out there for assistance to earn a really good salary. With that, I guess comes the caveat, particularly when you're working with high net worth individuals, that it can be a bit of a 24 7 job, but if you're being.
[00:22:13] Paid for that. And you are, those expectations are there. Yeah. Then or power to you. Yeah. And there are many vacancies, many roles that are middle of the roll. So it can be a good salary, a very good salary rather than the top end salary. And you, there is no eight of hours work. You're not called in the evening, you're not called at the.
[00:22:33] There's nothing of that, so it's exactly as you wish. You can go in at the, starting off, you probably go in at the 40,000 in Mayfair, and then further down in your career, you can be up at the 60,000 plus bonus without being called out of hours, or you can go even further up to 120.
[00:22:51] There's, it's as you wish, really you can push it as far as you like. And have you in your career, have you experienced any stereotypes around the role or any, have you hit any kind of glass ceilings or any barriers to you being able to do exactly what you want in the role? I say the stereotype is the really frustrating one.
[00:23:12] It's oh, do you have to like, go in his office, take him three cups of tea per. I think that is in a lot of people's minds, what ex executive assistants do. Don't get wrong every now and again. That can't be the case. If you've got guests that have arrived and you're taking them to the meeting room, see, you'll ask them if they want a drink.
[00:23:27] That is a per, that's minimal in compared to how you spend your day as an ex executive assistant. So I'll say that is, that's one of the stereotypes and it's definitely not like that. That's just a little tiny part of what you do as an executive assistant. Every now and again when there's a big meeting taking.
[00:23:46] And have you in terms of your virtual assistant work, ha, when you've been speaking to clients, do you find that there's a difference in the conversations that you have now that you're running your own business and you're a virtual assistant compared to some of the conversations you maybe had in interviews when you were going for high net worth and corporate ea positions?
[00:24:04] Are you, do you notice any difference in how you're treated? Yeah, I feel definitely for sure. Now it's more of a two-way thing. It's for me to judge if they're the right person that I want to be working with, and for them to judge if I'm the right person that they want to be working with. And it's more of we work together rather than back in the day when I was working as in high sex executive, executive assistant, it would feel more, or maybe I allow it to be like that, that they were choosing me.
[00:24:33] And in terms of conversation, I think. As the virtual executive assistant, it's more helping them and guiding them to see how it can work remotely and how the virtual exec executive assistant world works, because it can be fantastic for the right client if they're a new company, for example, and they just need some part-time support or maybe just three hours per day kind of support, or maybe just one hour per day.
[00:24:55] A virtual executive assistant is perfect. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I think once you step into a virtual assistant world, then your confidence almost becomes, I guess it increases because it's exactly as you said, you get to pick and choose who you work for. So going back to what we were saying earlier in the interview process, I wish the assistants who were going into a corporate environment could have that same mentality.
[00:25:21] And actually you still get to pick and choose who you want to work. Yeah. And then there is the advantage of when you have your own business and you're working for yourself, you have numerous clients. So you don't, all your eggs are not all in one basket. So for example, when you're an in-house executive assistant, it's so important that the director is happy with your work and that you feel comfortable there because that is your only source of income and your only job.
[00:25:44] Whereas the virtual, you have several clients. So if, for example, a client proves trick, then you are, normally you're in a good position to just, terminate that in a professional as friendly as possible way, and, invest more time in networking and promoting your business and then finding your next client, or just enjoying a bit more time for yourself on a personal level.
[00:26:05] Could you give any advice to our listeners today about how you can think more creatively about the assistant?
[00:26:11] I am probably the least creative person there is. So I don't know. I'll probably just, my advice would be you do need a quite a bit of, there is a certain level of creativity that is needed as a virtual executive assistant in particular in terms of showing up regularly on social media, on LinkedIn, talking about your business, what you can offer.
[00:26:32] Providing testimonials? Yeah, I would say that creativity is really quite important, especially as a virtual executive assistant, and in term generally is the ex executive assistant thinking outside of the box and trying to be one step ahead so you can preempt what is needed by the wider team or the office space or the director.
[00:26:52] So you can just be one head, one step ahead of the game and be there to propose things. So be really proactive rather than reactive. Yeah. How have you found marketing your services as a virtual assistant? Is it something that you are comfortable with or is it work in progress? Work in progress, for sure, because my background has never been creative.
[00:27:13] It's never been marketed, but's, what some people would say, no no you're a linguist. That's creative. But I don't see myself as traditionally creative and. Definitely not someone who is that knowledgeable in the field of marketing, but you learn as you go on. I've done different workshops along the way, different training, and it's a really friendly, positive network.
[00:27:35] The executive assistant network and people will share experiences and you've always got somebody to talk to. But yeah, for sure, for me it's a work in progress and you just learn as you. Yeah, I agree. What changes would you like to see in the assistant industry, if any? I think it's good, to be honest.
[00:27:54] I think it's good. I'll just say people who are using executive assistance, you get what you pay for, so it depends. You know what you need. There are different executive assistant, all different backgrounds, and in my experience, every now and again, there'll be a potential client who, wants everything that I can bring to the French, the Spanish, the translation.
[00:28:13] They're working at high net worth director level with the confidentiality et cetera. But when it comes to the raise, then they don't quite, that doesn't work well for them. So I think it's just people understanding, you get what you pay, you get what you pay for Basical. Yeah, there's been so much work in the virtual assistant space by some real pioneers that, have given virtual assistant so much confidence to price what they do, and really, lead on how much value that they bring.
[00:28:43] And with that comes a price. Because I think for years of virtual assistance space was so varied in price that people were going in and saying, you can't compete at that level. I can't live off the money that some virtual assistants are charging. Yeah. So I think it's been, I think it's absolutely work in progress, but there's been leaps and bounds I.
[00:29:01] In terms of progress made around how much virtual assistance are worth. And I really hope that continues because yeah, it's making a huge difference and it's allowing executive assistance to come out of the corporate world and have that flexibility and start their own businesses. So I really hope that does continue to change.
[00:29:18] No, I think it's really positive. I definitely see it, and in fact, it's much more. And beneficial in the executive assistant world and in the translation world with the introduction of machine translation and then people not really, sticking true to what they should be earning. And then, Many people coming in and working for not much.
[00:29:38] The rates are definitely going down, which is a massive shame, but at the end of the day, people will get what they pay for. If you want a machine to do your translation, the outcome is not gonna be as good as if you've got a professional experience and qualified translator. So I think sometimes people just, learn the hard way with that as well.
[00:29:56] Yeah. In terms, absolutely. Absolutely. It ends up being more expensive than it, yeah. It would've been if you just hired a, an actual, human translator in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. So before we wrap up I'd like to just share the love and find out some of the resources that you enjoy using that have helped you through your career.
[00:30:17] So I just wonder if there were any events or books or publications or websites or anything like that, that have helped you in your. I think the best I've come across so far is the VA handbooks. That was super useful for me when I didn't even know about virtual executive assistance when I first started to consider setting up on my own and the VA handbooks group on Facebook.
[00:30:41] That was super helpful and interesting for me just to say the conversations, ask the questions and read different material. And in terms of coaching, I had some coaching sessions with the holistic business coach, Lucy Everett, and that was super helpful for me because she came from a background where she worked as an in-house executive assistant in London and then became a virtual executive assistant before going on to coach Sold.
[00:31:07] That for me was super helpful and I think at some point I'll probably do some more coaching. It's just a TA just. A question of when and who. Cause I think that mentoring and coaching is always super helpful no matter where you are in your career. But definitely in the early days, they proved really useful for me.
[00:31:27] Oh, that's really helpful. Thank you. We'll make sure to add all of those links to the show notes so that people can check them out. But finale Lauren, thank you so much for your time. It's it's always great to get the perspective of a assistant who's made that move into the virtual assistant world, so thank you so much for sharing your experiences.
[00:31:45] No, thank you.