Episode Four:
Tina Ramamurthy, CEO Office Lead at Babbel

Episode description

We are joined in the forth episode of The EA CAmpus Podcast by Tina Ramamurthy, CEO Office Lead at Babbel. I’m so excited to share our discussion with you. Tina is an incredibly focused and strategic force, and she offers a huge amount of value to our listeners today. I loved talking with her and hearing about her health journey and how that has contributed to increased confidence. Her move to Berlin and why she changed her career focus from marketing and communications to supporting the CEO and C-Suite at Babbel. Enjoy the show today, and I hope you take lots away from this wonderful interview.

Show notes


Nicky Christmas 00:00
Hello, everybody, and welcome to our next episode of the EAA campus Podcast. Today I'm absolutely delighted to be joined by Tina Murphy. Tina. Hi, nice to meet you. Nice to see you.

Hi, Nikki. It's a pleasure to be here.

Nicky Christmas 01:55
Where are you joining us from today?

So I'm in sunny Berlin. Today. I am working from home. But it's, yeah, it's a glorious day.

Nicky Christmas 02:06
Well, thank you so much. I know that your career has been an incredible one. And I can't wait to hear all of the tips and tricks, and stories you've got to share with us today. But before we get started and dive in, I thought it'd be really nice for our listeners to find out a little bit more about you. So I wonder if you can just tell us about your career to date. Yeah, absolutely.

So I was born in India. So I'm Indian. My mom is she's got British and Portuguese heritage. My dad is South Indian. I grew up in Chennai, which is right down south, very close to Sri Lanka, where I went to school went to British Congo school. The My Ma, my bachelor's in visual communication, also gave me hands-on exposure to the Indian film industry advertising the art world. And then, I went on to business school in Bangalow. And shortly after, I moved to Melbourne, where actually the majority of my family lives to do my master's in communication. And through all those years, I worked in the branding, marketing and music industries with a focus on communication and managing backstages. That's an

Nicky Christmas 03:26
amazing start. Oh, wow. There's a lot I could ask about that. So how have you ended up in the role that you're in at the moment and in Berlin?

Yeah, so shortly after I got married, my husband was from London. And we thought we'll just give Berlin a go because we heard it was great for the music and art. He's a music producer and DJ. As cliched as it comes. But we'd never moved to we'd never actually visited Berlin. So we just packed up our bags and said, Alright, let's give this a go for a year. And the plan was to move back to London. And I was a really humbling star because we thought we could actually replicate our lives in Berlin. And it was only a couple of months after we realised we were actually small fish in a really big and different pond. So it was ego-crushing in a way while we took that as an opportunity to actually reassess life and figure out what we really wanted to do. And I decided I had a communication and branding agency, and all my clients were outside of Europe. So I said, Alright, let's take this as a restart and started looking for jobs because I heard the tech industry in Berlin is pretty good and never dabbled with that. And I was just scrolling through. One was an advertising agency, and the other was a bubble. And Apple was a startup. And it was one of these roles where I was managing backstage, which I always found intriguing, like leading from the shadows and being part of company culture, and education, which is really close to my heart. It's a cause. It's my cause. I call it because, growing up in India, education, especially for women, is still considered privileged in some parts. And I'm really fortunate that I had that privilege. So babbles purposes, actually creating mutual understanding through languages, and in a way, it brings the world closer together. So it was a purpose that I knew I had to at least give a go. And with this role, which was, as she was a marketing assistant role, it was also to do with my own purpose in life, which is enabling people to succeed while staying true to themselves.

Nicky Christmas 06:06
It's always really good when you find a job in an organisation where their values really align with your own. I would imagine that it makes it so much easier to do the work and to be motivated in the work that you do. Have you found that? Oh, absolutely.

I always say I've been here for seven years, about more. And I wake up every single day excited. Of course, there are peaks and troughs, but you always know that you're making a little bit of a difference in the world. And that feels great.

Nicky Christmas 06:40
So tell us a little bit about Babel. What specifically does it an app for language learning? Am I correct? There?

Yes, Babble is the number one destination for language learners globally. It's an ecosystem of language learning offerings interconnected, including the world's World's Best Selling language learning app.

Nicky Christmas 07:02
So yeah, I can imagine it's a busy role. So tell us how you went from you started as a marketing assistant, how did you end up working as an assistant,

so my CEO honour, he actually joined the company a few months after I did as the CMO. But then, and he kind of took me along the journey. And right now, I lead the CEO office available, which is my mission basically to maximise honour our CEO and the executive team's effectiveness, to enable them to successfully lead the company. So what I do is, have an overview of the big rocks or strategic priorities, as he likes to call them. And then focus on ensuring this alignment on the executive team level and hold them accountable to get a resolution on any roadblocks we face with strategy. I also lead the executive teams' internal and external communications and focus on executive team development and building. And just, I'm there to extend the CEO's bandwidth, basically. So it's a lot of focus on long-term strategic planning, leading cross-functional projects on his behalf, just to enable him to fully focus on strategic work and decisions where he's needed the most. Wow, it's a full-on

Nicky Christmas 08:25
role. And we're absolutely going to dive into all of that. Because I think, for me, the key phrase that you use there, whether it was to actually, it was around expanding your executive's bandwidth, which I think is a really great way of summarising what an assistant does, but also holding them accountable. And I really want to come back to you later on in the podcast about how you do that and in how you have the confidence to do that. So we'll put that on pause for a minute because I absolutely want to come back and dive into that. But I'd like to get a sense of as much what you do in your role and what your life looks like outside of work. So why don't we start at the beginning, and you talk me through what your morning routine looks like or how you start your day?

So I'm usually up at 6 am and start off my day with a terrible espresso and two hours of focus work. How it sounds really, pathetically gratifying to have a head start to the day when everyone's asleep. And then I go for morning runs. It's usually your aim for 16k a day. And yeah, my idea of self-love is self-discipline, as I like to call it. And I truly believe that if you have to help, you have to help yourself first so you can take care of the people around you. Wow, that's incredible.

Nicky Christmas 09:50
impressive. I have to say. I have to say; I'm not surprised you need a double espresso. If you're getting up at six o'clock in the morning every day. That would make a lot of sense. Do you find that when you don't do that in the morning, it takes you off track for the rest of the day? Is that something that you need so that you are focused for the day? Oh, absolutely. Especially during the week,

I mean, I am for six days a week, and on weekdays I have to do it, I secretly joke with my team that I'm just not the most fun person to be around when I don't have that time. Because I call it my me time, and those runs are so important for me because I process a lot of things during those runs or self-reflect on different emotions that I've had the previous day, so I can replicate those good emotions going forward. So I have like a formula for life as well. But as

Nicky Christmas 10:45
I said that's impressive. As a keen runner myself, I know 16k, and every time it's not easy. So kudos to you for doing that is very impressive. And so when you get back to your desk festival, why don't you let us know what's happened with you over the course of the pandemic? If you've been in the office or working from home? And how does that work for you?

So predominantly, everyone had to work remotely because the team's health and safety come first. And were anyway, digital companies, it was easy enough to, you know, move, remote. And then, slowly, we started opening up the office, but it all depended on the infection rates in the city. So we keep a keen eye on that. So right now, we have a hybrid working model. So it's dependent on each sub-team to decide how they want to work. So I usually go in two or three days, probably two days a week, and work remotely for the rest of it.

Nicky Christmas 11:45
And how have you found that in collaborating and working with the team there? Is it been a kind of work in progress? Do you feel like you've got it down now?

Um, so the thing is, we've built relationships, even pre-pandemic, and it wasn't hard for us to maintain those relationships in a way to collaborate. I personally did struggle with that, for me was my challenge to the pandemic. I struggled with switching off from work because, I mean, I was. I love what I do, that's for sure. But I found it hard to separate work and personal life because everything was confined to working from home.

Nicky Christmas 12:33
Yeah, it's hard to sort of split those boundaries, isn't it when there's not a physical space that you're leaving and then entering? I think a lot of people can relate to that. I think there are a lot of assistants that are listening, that is probably still finding that a challenge when they are working or, you know, having the hybrid method in place or system in place that so many people have now. So let's have a talk about what an average day looks like for you, which I know is a tough question for any assistant because I know two days are not the same. But on the whole, how does your day look?

Yeah, it's just gonna say the same thing that's been so exciting that I've never had two days left the same these last seven years. So let me try to put this down and give you a slight overview. So say, on average Monday, I usually start off the week with a check into the week with our CEO and the admin coordinator, where we look at all the CEO's office priorities. It's a really good way to also just figure out if we're stretching ourselves too thin and if it's realistic or not. And if we need to push out some of our project timelines, I usually do this by listing everything out the Friday before. And then I have a tonne of alignment or planning meetings, like for content-driven projects, with, say, the executives of the corporate strategy and development team. Internal comms team communication, the EA and people and organisation, which is our HR department, we usually have also daily 15-minute alignment meetings with honour so on me just to get get to a resolution for different topics we've got. And I make it a point to also block off our work. Focus blocks me from actually getting stuff done.

Nicky Christmas 14:30
Do you find that that is helpful in terms of planning out the rest of the week and the rest of the day when you have those checking points with your executive? Because I know there are a lot of assistants who never find that they can get that time with their executive for one reason or another. But I think as you do when you work in a busy organisation, you find that time because it's useful, and I just wonder if you can attest to that.

Oh, absolutely. And our CEO knows that. His decisions if If he doesn't make that on time, it could stall the whole company in some cases. So he knows the importance of those quick lineman meetings and just not being a roadblock for the rest of the world.

Nicky Christmas 15:11
And the other follow-up question I had there from really what your day looks like. And I think the role that you have, do you think there's a difference between being an executive assistant to the CEO? And in your case, the person that is the manager of the CEO's office? Do you see there is a difference? Or is it simply a difference in a job title?

So I do see a difference between the two roles. And actually, in a couple of months, we're gonna get me to the CEO as well. And the difference I see is I take care of all the high-level strategic priorities. And I will work really closely with EA, who will take care of all his day-to-day priorities and manage his energy.

Nicky Christmas 15:57
Yeah, it's important, isn't it? I think that distinction is, as you've pointed out there, the difference between managing time simply and the tasks that you know, that that take up that time of your executives and their energy. I think that's it's a really interesting point to make because it's such a critical part of managing an executive schedule, that they are doing the right things, not only at the right point in time but also at the point in time when they're most capable of doing those tasks. So will you be training the new EA coming in to know how to manage that? Because I would imagine you're the absolute expert on your executives' energy levels during the day.

Yeah, absolutely. I am looking forward to her bringing something different as well, like changing things up. So she would be part of the CEO of this as well. And actually, we do have a tonne of years. So all I execs heavy is at the company. And the way we see it is I would bring all these high-level strategic priorities to all of them during our AAA meetings. So they can actually pre-plan because sometimes you're just so focused on the day-to-day that you forget to think about what's coming up next. And then need to have that sort of overview to manage their time effectively.

Nicky Christmas 17:20
Wow, that's really that's fantastic. Because as you said, it's you know, sometimes with the executive assistants, it's so head down, getting through the work, and it can be difficult to have that overview of the whole organisation. So if there's one top-level assistant who's able to filter that down to the rest of the executive assistant team, that's how helpful it is that I'm. I hope everyone takes that point away and steals it for their organisations. Because just staying in the loop for any EA can be difficult sometimes. Well, let's go back to the part of your day where you hopefully get some downtime around lunchtime. I wonder if you're somebody that works through or if you manage to get some time away? What do you do after your lunch break?

So actually, lunch is the main meal for me because I'm intermittent fasting. So any eats during an eight-hour window and fast the rest. And it's one of those meals where it's like a high protein, high carb, plant-based meal. And so really depends on if I'm working remote or from the office. So the days I go back, I do meet people that I work with, just to also not talk about work and, you know, figure out what they're up to. And when I'm at home, I usually take 30-minute breaks, and then try to split up my time where every, say, three hours, make sure just have a 10-minute break to regain my own energy and do various things like maybe reading a chapter book, a book that I'm after, or speaking to my parents or playing a game of words, sometimes.

Nicky Christmas 19:10
just everything just to have a bit of a break. What's the most challenging aspect of your day? Would you say

something I touched upon earlier is switching off at the end of the day. And I just I do feel that it got worse since the pandemic; however, this year, I'm trying to be more cautious of it. And I'm coming up with kind of power-down rules for myself. Because sometimes it's like you want to finish that one task, and that leads into like a whole stream of other tasks and before you know what, it's like 8 pm. So I also have people around me holding me accountable for it. So I've got a coach who's been with me for the last seven years. My man, make sure I have. I stopped Could seventh and actually disconnected and had dinner with him. And also, my CEO he's always checking in to ensure I'm not putting in too much time. That's really good.

Nicky Christmas 20:13
that your executive is also aware that you might be doing a bit too much work, so I'd like to come back to the point you made there about having a coach. Is that something you'd recommend for other assistants? And how have you found that

helpful for you? Oh, absolutely. I. So I actually have had inker for the last seven years. And it's a bit of a personal story about how I stumbled across her because I was actually interviewing a lot of coaches for my team. And so I was between coordinating it, where she sat me down one, like during that process and said, We just wanted to hear me out. And she actually picked up that I was in the early stages of having burnout. And this was shortly after she joined the company. So it was something that I was used to just working in and out because I had my own company, etc., etc. So she caught it and asked me to speak to my boss immediately out my then manager. And she was like, you've got to take like a week off just to take a break from work. And I'm so grateful that she caught it at the right time because I bounced back soon after that, I do know. It's one of those things I struggle with because I've never known the concept of taking breaks. So going on vacations and not working. And that's something that was brand new to me when I moved to Germany. And anchor has been just incredible, throughout the seven years because I look at those one hour, those monthly hours together that she just she I mean, we always have a goal that we need to achieve together. But I used it as my self-reflection time because she asked all the right questions and just made me think about the scenario from a different angle as well. I would definitely recommend everyone have a coach of some sort, even if your manager doesn't have the time to find someone externally to help you do that. So what's

Nicky Christmas 22:25
the most enjoyable aspects of your day and the role?

So certainly, I'm so fortunate I found a fulfilling role that's aligned with my purpose, as I said, like enabling others to succeed while staying true to themselves. And a cause which is so close to my heart's education. And if I had to really be a bit more granular about this role, I love the bridge-building aspect of it. I don't consider it a gatekeeper role. I don't like that concept too much. I believe I'm there to enable the executive team to get closer to the rest of the organisation and vice versa. Yes,

Nicky Christmas 23:07
the role has changed so much, hasn't it? I mean, I would imagine when you first came in seven years ago, even then, people were talking about gatekeeping. And, you know, being super strict with your executive's time and you know, all of that sort of thing. But it's changed so much. I think you're right. I think that's a lovely way of putting it, building bridges and making connections. It's really important for assistants to do that, particularly when they're executive so busy. You know, it's that bridge between the staff and the, in your case, the office, you know, that manages the whole organisation. So that makes a lot of sense. It's lovely that you get enjoyment out of that. It's really nice because I know that some assistants can find that a bit overwhelming. But you look at it positively. Yeah. And we have just the nicest people work available.

It's one of the things that kept me going as well.

Nicky Christmas 24:00
So what have been your career highlights?

Oh, that's such a great question. So I'd say my most lasting and fulfilling achievements come from enabling and encouraging, and promoting others along the way to fulfil this. I'm so fortunate to not just find a career that allows me to do that for the CEO and the executive team but also for the people I've managed in these last seven years at Babel. Sebata, which has been their coach and seeing them reach far greater potential than they ever could for the rose out of high them. For example, there was one who joined us working student as a team coordinator. He's now gone on to be the senior b2b Sales Manager Babel and completely smashing it. There was Tebow, who came in as a team coordinator who's now moved to Australia and is doing nursing and making a real difference in people's lives. There's Eileen, who's now gone on to be a senior DNI manager bubble and holding us accountable to do better as well. And really live our diversity aspect. And there's Katie, who's the admin coordinator, who will be moving back to Australia, where she comes from as well. So she goes off to the industry she's passionate about, which is real estate. That's amazing. It's not often that assistants get the opportunity to manage staff. So

Nicky Christmas 25:31
how did that come about for you? Was that something that was always going to be in the role? Or is it something that you looked for and asked to do?

So I mean, that's slowly happened, because when I was the marketing assistant, our team started growing rapidly. And at one point, it was nearly 100 100 or 120 people, and it was managing, then director of marketing Annabella, and honour the CMOS time and doing all their projects in a way, and also taking care of the team. And it was a bit too much. And that's when we realised that we needed a team assistant to help out. And, as I said, I kind of grew within the role and started taking on more responsibility. I asked for it and slowly had to put together a business plan for every little responsibility I wanted, and I got there. So I'd say it was a slow burner, and it just naturally got to this place. I'd like to touch on the confidence that you have. I think it comes across so strongly as you're talking to us. Is that something that you've developed over time? Have you always been a confident person?

Nicky Christmas 26:54
How have you found that that's, that's grown with you as your career has moved forward? Well, I'm

As an extrovert, I definitely gained a lot of energy from being around people. I would say confidence has nothing to do with that, though. I, I guess, actually built that right before moving to Berlin because it also came from getting fitter, in a way, because I had always been a big girl and wanted to get healthier. And I was just doing it the unhealthy way, just trying different diets. And literally, you name it, and I've done it. And it was ten years ago, or just over, I started looking at healthy ways to do this. And that's been the running came into being, moving to a plant-based diet, etc. And it was only after I felt that I gained that confidence.

Nicky Christmas 27:52
And now you're you've said that you hold the CEO, and I assume the executive team, as well as accountable for the objectives and goals and the goals of the business. And I think a lot of assistants. They'd like to get to that position. But again, it's sometimes it's a confidence issue. You know, these people are so senior, they run these huge organisations, it's sort of that who am I to go in there and say, you need to do this, you need to do that. But it's so important. So again, I just want to say I wanted to come back to it. Well, how do you go about doing that holding

such senior people accountable for the things that move the business forward. So I always believe people would be convinced to do anything if you give them the actual reason why they need to do it. So I do present them even when it comes to saying executive communications. It's not everyone wants to do it, but it's essential. And always look at data to support it and why it's needed. And also even looking at different kinds of feedback we get from across the organisation. And in a way, that's how they've kind of taken me in. And, of course, they challenged me along the way. But they do see that it can actually make a difference in their work.

Nicky Christmas 29:17
And I guess it does. Right once you actually start to realise the difference it makes, it becomes easier to have those conversations.

Absolutely. And it takes a while also to build that trust as well.

Nicky Christmas 29:29
It sounds like you're kind of fit so much into your morning, and then you're working throughout the day. I do wonder when he gets eight o'clock, and everyone says to stop working, stop working, what you do for the rest of the day. So talk to us about what you do in the evenings.

So sounds really dull, but I'm in bed by 10. So that's just enough time to have dinner with my mind and chat about the interests of the day. And to me, I really save this moment. And then every day of the week, because these regular moments come to sell them to us over weekends. Because he's a music producer and DJ, he's always on the road on weekends. And I aim to go with him three to four times a month. And he'd say, I'm kind of managing his energy and his backstage, with his labour, etc. But I see it the other way around. I'm so fortunate that I get to have this opportunity to meet so many people from different walks of life and different cultures. And I really enjoy being on the dance floor as well when he's been because I, some buyers, but obviously, he's a really good storyteller as well. So that feeds into what I do about all as well. Well, that's

Nicky Christmas 30:50
brilliant. That's so nice that there's that synergy there. Because you wouldn't necessarily think it, would you? But, um, it's amazing that you've managed to pull those threads through and find that the work he does helps influence the work that you do. I wonder, just because of the company that you work for and the different countries that you've lived in? How many languages do you speak and do? I should ask that question first. Because you might just say, just English. How many languages do you speak?

So I speak English just about. I mean, I am a native English speaker. And I speak French, although it's a bit rusty now. But that's what I studied at school and university. German, just about to get by. And I do speak a couple of Indian languages as well. How have

Nicky Christmas 31:45
you found that that's helped with working at Babel? Is there I would imagine that they encourage their staff to learn languages.

Oh, absolutely. And we have just so many nationalities working we've had. We've got 750 People working in Babel and about 65 nationalities, no wrong. And English is the way we communicate. However, it just is amazing to know these languages to also bond in a different way with different stakeholders as well.

Nicky Christmas 32:19
I think it's really because I also live outside of the country where I was born. I think it's really interesting when you speak to other people who live in a different country and how that sort of changes your personality and character. Because I think going back to that confidence point, you sort of out of your comfort zone every day, aren't you, when you step outside the front door into a world where the language is different, the culture is different. So can I just want to have that affect you in your life?

Is it something that you notice? I do believe Berlin became home because of that. Because also, like not having family around, or even when we moved, not having friends around, it kind of gave me that clean slate that I could start over again, in a way and not have these expectations as well. So I looked at it as a really good opportunity to just go off to what I wanted and just try to give that side ago.

Nicky Christmas 33:22
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? I think, for me, it's definitely a lot of the kind of hang-ups I had around perfectionism and things like that, which I know a lot of assistants struggle with, really stopped when I moved to Barcelona because I was just making mistakes all the time with what I was saying and the languages that I was attempting to speak, but actually, kind of being a B plus, you know, making the best effort of things was really helpful for me that I could kind of go right well, perfection, being perfect is not the answer here anymore. I think first, for anybody that has the potential to live and work abroad is something that you definitely notice it completely changes who you are.

Absolutely, I actually am really true about perfectionism as well, as the same happens, but I, in a way, thought it was also to do with the role. And I mean, that's, and that's the good thing about living away as well that you got all these kinds of learning opportunities, and that's when growth happens as well.

Nicky Christmas 34:30
Absolutely, I completely 100% agree with that. A lot of growth happens when you make mistakes. So you should sort of be open to them something, something I say a lot. So, let's start talking about advice. What's the advice that you would give to assistants maybe who are just coming into the role or are looking to develop in their career,

always begin with the end in mind, and this is relevant personally or even at work. Personally, I It's I will always say start with a clear destination. Spend time developing a vision of what kind of impact you want to make if that's what you're after. And don't be afraid to ask for more responsibilities. Well, I truly believe that only when you get out of your comfort zone, well, that may sound scary. You can always hold on to your principles or your moral compass to guide you through those peaks and troughs while getting there. Is that something that you've found? If you use that advice yourself? Absolutely. And I do believe that. That's one of the reasons why I grew within Babel as well. What would you think that you would do? If

Nicky Christmas 35:42
weren't you an assistant? Is there something that you've, you've always thought I could do?

So I mean, there's always been this pipe dream, and I don't know if I'll ever pursue it. But I always think at some point. I would love to run my own fitness. Do you deal with the nutrition bar attached to it? And this kind of comes back to my own story. We're getting fit as well. And just enabling people to just be confident with where they're at and help them get there. So I'd say this was probably ten years ago. I've always been a big girl. And I basically tried every diet out there. And it was only after the sounds really cliched but I met my man. And we started off. We were doing distance. I was in Australia, and he was in London. And she's like, Hey, you know if we're going to do the distance, I gotta be honest with you. I'm going to lay all my cards out there. These are all my flaws. And I'm a big girl. And he's just like, Yeah, but you perfect the way you are. And just something clicked to me was just like, Oh, my God, I want to do this for myself because I want a better chance to have a longer life, in a way. And that's when I realised that habit changes only happen if you truly want it for yourself and not because anyone else wants it for you. So that's when I discovered running and lifting weights and just eating healthier, not so much with calorie counting, but eating good foods.

Nicky Christmas 37:39
And plant-based was the way that you went for that. Yeah, yeah. It makes a big difference. What's one of the things that you find really grateful about the career that you've had in working, managing the CEO office and working as not an executive assistant anymore because you're gonna hire somebody in to do that? But around the role, what's one of the things that you think I'm so grateful for that what it brings you,

I'd say it's just the opportunity to learn every day. It's been one of those roles where I don't know if I'm fully qualified. I don't think I'll ever be while having that freedom to just go after it, make mistakes, and learn from it. And it's one of those. It's always been one of those roles at Apple. So I'm very fortunate about that aspect of it.

Nicky Christmas 38:36
That's wonderful. It sounds like an incredible organisation to work for. It sounds like there's lots of freedom to grow in the role, which I think any assistant would find incredibly grateful because there's so much that that assistants can do and so much value that they can add. It's nice when you work in an organisation that fosters that. So if there's one thing you knew about the role before you started, what would it be? What would you tell yourself if you could go back to the stars?

So I knew there was a role that enables you to play a significant part in shaping culture and leading the company from the shadows without being in the spotlight. And I just always found the concept incredibly intriguing. And the story behind that, actually, about this career dates way back because my mom is a working mom and dedicated her whole career to being an executive assistant. And I can take you back to that first incident when I knew what this roll was all about when I figured it out. I remember it was probably a and had to stay back at school because I had vocal training classes and usually got the school bus. So after as, she had to go to my mom's office, and she gave me these little meeting rooms that hate just, you know, do your homework. But me being curious, I tried to sneak out to see what she was really up to a word because I had no idea. And I vividly remember seeing my mum orchestrating this company in three-inch heels and wearing this invisible Cape like that, as I call it. And this woman that I deemed a hero at home with my dad suddenly stopped turning into a superhero that day. While I didn't actively pursue this career because I studied branding and communication, I guess subconsciously was always in the back of my head. Oh, that's

Nicky Christmas 40:35
fantastic is two generations. That's brilliant. That's absolutely brilliant. So I want to move on to a few areas where you can recommend some things that have helped you move forward in your role. I wonder if you can just tell us about any books or resources that you use that you find the found really helpful to develop your career. In terms of websites I

would say for business, Howard Business School and Forbes are found really useful to have a lot of fantastic a podcast of theirs. Diana Brandl is the future assistant podcast. Jeremy BURROWS thinks his name is his podcast called The leader assistant. And in terms of books, are really like Haley Warren is the founder and force multiplier. And Lynch Ian is The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. There is also a tonne of self-development books that are like, say, best self from my seven habits of highly effective, Effective People by Stephen Covey and the power of now, which is by Eckhart Tolle. And in terms of your blogs, I love the practically perfect air blog you have been on for the last seven years. And there's another one called evil or level. I'm not quite sure how to pronounce that one.

Nicky Christmas 42:10
We'll make sure we add all of those resources to the show notes. Because I know from what you've said to us over the last 40 minutes it sounds like a wonderful journey for you. Well, it's been an absolutely wonderful experience talking to you and an absolute joy. Thank you so much. I know how busy you are. So I appreciate you taking the time to speak with our podcast listeners today.

Thank you so much, Nikki, it's been such a pleasure, and you've put me at ease completely. So appreciate that.

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